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the oldest

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and strongest human emotion is fear

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and the oldest and strongest type of

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fear

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is trepidation of the unknown

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when we were children our parents told

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us that monsters didn't exist

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but we were sure that something was

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lurking under the bed or in the closet

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fear sees even if our eyes are closed

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welcome to the realm of the arcane my

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name is lon

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stripler join me as i examine

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unexplained creatures

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strange manifestations of remarkable

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realities

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imagine this next hour as a voyage of

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discovery to strange lands

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seeking not for new territory but for

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new knowledge of the supernatural

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come on board as we begin this adventure

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together

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hey folks good evening and welcome we're

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back again for another episode of arcane

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radio

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where we explore the unexplained here on

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the paranormal king radio network

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i'm your host lon strickler coming to

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you within a cannon shot of historic

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gettysburg pennsylvania

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i thank you for joining me now before we

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uh start talking to our guests

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i want to talk about a recent report

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that we received but the team

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uh where a witness observed observed the

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tall human shaped being

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in a preserve near o'hare international

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airport

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now the description is interesting since

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it is near several other wing humanoid

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siding locations

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now i recently talked to two women who

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have had an encounter

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with an unknown entity in this forest

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preserve located near

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rosemont illinois lj later

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forward the following written report my

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friend and i were biking north on a

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closed cook county forest preserve trail

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near rosemont on december 8 2019 at

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around 2pm

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central time now i believe we entered

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the trail on the north side

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off of lawrence avenue into the

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catherine chevalier

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woods we walked their bikes at this

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point because the trail was muddy

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now it was along the desk plains river

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maybe a quarter mile later the trail

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hooked up

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with a more official looking bike trail

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after a few minutes on that trail i was

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overcome with an immediate sense of

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anxiety and

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doom about 30 to 50 yards away on the

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right side of the trail

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i swear i saw something that was about

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six to seven

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foot tall with its back mostly towards

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us

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but slightly facing east it looked like

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the back was covered in

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feathers or some scraggly looking light

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brown

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or great coat it looked kind of hunched

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over

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i thought it was just my imagination and

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didn't say

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anything to my friend about it at the

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time and tried to focus on the

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conversation we were having at the time

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while

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i left nervous i felt nervous biking

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toward it

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and was not looking at it as we biked in

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this direction

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think it was just my imagination but i

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felt worried

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now later that day a friend texted us

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jokingly

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to say that we were that there were a

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number of mothman sightings in the area

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we had biked

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uh through the earlier that day through

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earlier that day

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that's when i felt my heart sink now we

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didn't know much about this being before

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we found your site

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when researching the mothman after we

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got back from her bike trip

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now she attached uh some google earth

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images to show

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specifics and such and uh

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they also sent a photograph

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that her friend took of her right before

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the sighting

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so anyway you know the witness is a

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known professional in chicago and the

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location

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is east of o'hare international airport

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now i know the area is somewhat since

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it's in nature preserve behind the the

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convention center and the lowe's chicago

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hotel

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places i've been while i've been wahia

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visited chicago

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now the des plaines river is directly

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behind the convention center in the

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hotel

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uh for some reason i personally believe

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that this may be a key location

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for whatever reason and one of our team

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is investigating the area

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so we're getting a follow-up we are

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going to i will report it

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emanuel navrat who is one of our team

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investigators we'll be going out there

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he's already

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talked to the witnesses and uh they're

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gonna arrange something

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uh to go out there together but it's

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we have had sightings near that area

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so um i don't know you know hopefully

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we're gonna get some more answers but

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you know

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that's part of what we do anyway tonight

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i welcome paranormal researcher author

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lecturer

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chad lewis to arcane radio

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now chad has a background of psychology

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and earned a

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bachelor and master's degree in his

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field

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but for the last 20-plus years he has

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traveled the globe

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in search of unique and bizarre stories

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in history

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from tracking vampires in transylvania

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and searching for the elusive monster

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of loch ness to investigating ghosts in

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ireland's haunted castles

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and london's underground chad has

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scoured the earth in search of the

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paranormal

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he has authored over 20 books on the

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supernatural

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and extensively lectures on his

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fascinating findings

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the more bizarre the legend the more

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likely it is that you'll find chad there

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his latest book is titled when to go to

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lore

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monsters miss and madness

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so chad thanks for coming on the show

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hey great to be back

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man it's great talking to you i guess

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i've been over a year i suppose

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yeah i think we did big money monster

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now this book i mean i tell you what

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fascinates me about this book

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is that the wendigo is not a subject

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that i'm well versed in now of course i

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do get some reports where people

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claim that they have encountered one of

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these beings or seen one of these beings

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but you know i'm kind of left hanging

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out there trying to figure out if that's

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what they actually

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all

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what is a wendigo well there are

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two different windigos if you will one

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is a modern windigo which is much

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different than the

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traditional lore now the traditional

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lore tells of the windigo

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in three forms and the most terrifying

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form would be

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its flesh and blood where it's some sort

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of

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tall

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uh reports going from anywhere from

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eight feet tall to

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top taller than trees if it wants to it

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can grow

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as much as it eats it's often very thin

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very skeletal looking it's gaunt

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it's often missing its mouth and its

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lips

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as it's chewed them or consumed them in

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its

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insatiable hunt for human flesh it is

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said to have a paralyzing voice

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that if you hear the windigo you will be

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frozen in fear

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and then it will be able to devour you

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quicker that way

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but it also comes in the form of a

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spirit being where it can possess you

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and slowly turn you into a windigo as

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well

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and i think for me that's the most

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terrifying

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part of it is that you could actually be

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possessed by this thing

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and then slowly turn into this

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cannibalistic

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well before we get into some of the

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legends and traditional

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uh accounts i do want to ask you one

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thing i have

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been you know for a few years now

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myself and other researchers and

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investigators have been receiving these

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settings

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of these emaciated pale

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humanoids or rakes they want to call

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them flesh gates

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crawlers or whatever you want to name

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them is there a possibility that there's

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any connection with this

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a lot of people note the similarities

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between these

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new versions of monsters and the old

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windigo that

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a few years back a couple brothers in

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spooner wisconsin which is in the north

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woods we're at a

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old historic summer camp and on separate

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nights

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both separately spotted a creature that

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they had no idea what it was

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same thing is what you probably get a

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lot of reports of very tall

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very thin very menacing creature

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staring at them they had no idea what it

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was

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went home started researching had never

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heard of the windigo before

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but when they started finding uh images

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of drawings and likenesses of the

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windigo they said that's exactly what

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they spotted

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because there's no other creature that

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really resembles it

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throughout cryptozoology of that

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tall thin menacing

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claws um often a zone of fear

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around it so a lot of people i don't

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know if they're seeing it nowadays but

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it's the only reference they have

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yeah exactly i mean you know when they

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come to me and tell me about this

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you know of course they they probably

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digging a bit on

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google and they're coming up with this

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wendigo legends

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and they're automatically assuming

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that's what they saw

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and i don't know you know i guess maybe

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a few of them may possibly be that but

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it's uh

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you know it's just another [\h__\h] that

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we're faced with

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and you know maybe we're dealing with an

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absolutely different

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type of entity it certainly seems to be

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because the windigo in traditional lore

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was attached to not only the weather the

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environment

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but also starvation and famine and food

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shortage and it was tied to the

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blizzards the cold and that

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mental i just the

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mental toughness of surviving in one of

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the most brutal areas in north america

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it was tied to that and these other

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reports

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one from south dakota somebody believing

289
00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:15,120
they've

290
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:17,920
captured a sighting of a windigo

291
00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:18,720
creature so

292
00:11:22,069 --> 00:11:20,800
again i don't know if they're different

293
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:22,079
creatures or

294
00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:24,640
these things have morphed and progressed

295
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:27,120
i'm also getting reports nowadays of the

296
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:28,880
more traditional

297
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:31,360
thought looking when to go with the

298
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:32,560
antlers

299
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:34,800
and the more deer like so when people

300
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:36,560
see years ago what they would have

301
00:11:41,829 --> 00:11:39,040
called a deer man or a deer woman

302
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:41,839
you know half human half deer like they

303
00:11:45,829 --> 00:11:43,839
often refer to that as windigo

304
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:45,839
because of the more popular

305
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:48,399
representation of it with antlers

306
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:50,160
right yeah and that's what i have

307
00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:51,680
received also

308
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:54,720
uh i i think in the past several years i

309
00:11:59,590 --> 00:11:57,360
probably received two or three

310
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,600
uh humanoids with antlers and the first

311
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:01,680
thing the witness is saying ah

312
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:04,639
that's a when to go well i don't know i

313
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:06,079
think most of these were down in the

314
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:08,480
south that's not traditionally the area

315
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:10,639
where the wendigo is known for can you

316
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:13,760
tell us where it is known for

317
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:15,760
the windigo started with the first

318
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:16,959
nation people of

319
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:19,839
canada the algonquin which is a series

320
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:21,920
of different tribes

321
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:24,560
sharing a similar language and even

322
00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:26,720
though the views of each tribe could be

323
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:28,399
tremendously different

324
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:31,600
they all believed in this large giant

325
00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:35,120
creature and shamans could

326
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:36,880
fight the creature they could also

327
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:38,480
summon it so

328
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:41,040
you could summon the windigo to a

329
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:41,920
different

330
00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:44,000
tribe or village that you were warring

331
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:46,399
with and either have it devour that

332
00:12:50,069 --> 00:12:47,600
community or

333
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,079
scare off all the game in that community

334
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:52,399
so that community then would then starve

335
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:53,519
to death

336
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:55,839
so it was a first nation story

337
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:56,959
originally

338
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:59,120
and has slowly spread its way through

339
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:00,880
the great lakes region

340
00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:03,040
of the united states and even out on the

341
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:04,399
eastern coast

342
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:07,120
of the northern uh eastern portion of

343
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,480
the u.s

344
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:10,720
but that's mainly where it went through

345
00:13:14,949 --> 00:13:11,760
canada

346
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:14,959
and the great lakes region of the united

347
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:16,240
states here and

348
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:19,440
being that i grew up in wisconsin i

349
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:21,920
heard stories of the windigo growing up

350
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,480
but

351
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:24,399
unless like you and i were talking about

352
00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:26,800
earlier that unless you grew up in the

353
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:28,639
great lakes you probably

354
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:30,560
may not have heard of the windigo or if

355
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:32,800
you did you would have known a few

356
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:34,000
little tidbits about

357
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:37,120
it but there wasn't a lot of substance

358
00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:38,880
on it

359
00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:40,800
yeah you know i've talked to several

360
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:43,120
people in who live in that area

361
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:46,000
and in canada and you know a lot of a

362
00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:47,920
lot of them are not familiar with it as

363
00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:49,680
well they've heard of it

364
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:51,440
you know they heard of either the cree

365
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:54,079
or chippewa or bishway

366
00:13:59,590 --> 00:13:56,880
you know in their legends their lore but

367
00:14:01,990 --> 00:13:59,600
that's about all they know

368
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:02,000
and it sticks with people here a few

369
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:03,600
years back i did a program

370
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:05,360
in northern minnesota way up by the

371
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:06,720
canadian border

372
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:09,120
and after the program a woman in her 80s

373
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:10,320
came up to me

374
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:12,320
and told me that as a young girl in the

375
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,800
area she recalled that her father

376
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:17,279
used to warn her and all the other kids

377
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:18,639
playing together

378
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:22,079
that if they ever heard a kettle being

379
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,160
banged in the woods they needed to get

380
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:26,240
home as fast as they could

381
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:28,320
because that meant the windigo was

382
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:30,160
coming and that it was

383
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:32,880
smashing its kettle announcing its

384
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:33,600
arrival

385
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:36,320
and she told me that even though she

386
00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:38,240
never heard the sound of the kettle in

387
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:39,120
the woods

388
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:42,720
the story stuck with her 70 plus years

389
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:43,440
later

390
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:46,320
like it just happened the day before

391
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,120
that's

392
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:49,680
how important the windigo was or is in

393
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:52,560
the great lakes region

394
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:54,240
yeah it's interesting i mean it's almost

395
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:56,160
like your boogeyman you know

396
00:15:02,470 --> 00:14:59,199
uh yeah it really was it was

397
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:02,480
uh get home before the

398
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:06,160
boogeyman or the windigo came to get you

399
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:08,959
so uh some of the legends that you wrote

400
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:09,680
about well

401
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:11,760
not really legends because they involve

402
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:13,199
real people

403
00:15:19,509 --> 00:15:16,480
who seem to have been

404
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:19,519
possessed by this wendigo

405
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:22,320
spirit because of either hardship

406
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:23,680
starvation

407
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:26,240
some type of metamorphosis that cause

408
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:27,199
them

409
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:29,360
to change can you talk about a few of

410
00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:31,120
these

411
00:15:34,389 --> 00:15:33,519
yes and that's the angle we took with

412
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:34,399
this book

413
00:15:41,269 --> 00:15:38,959
that if you go on any academic journals

414
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:41,279
websites you'll find tons of articles

415
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:42,560
about the windigo

416
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:45,920
all of them mostly looking at it from

417
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:49,279
the view of sociology or anthropology

418
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:52,720
and looking at it from a very academic

419
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:56,000
lens not looking at it from a paranormal

420
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:57,360
lens where

421
00:16:00,710 --> 00:15:59,759
we believed that when people explained

422
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:00,720
these stories

423
00:16:03,749 --> 00:16:03,360
and wrote about them and documented them

424
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:03,759
that

425
00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:10,560
believed these stories and

426
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:12,639
if any of your listeners have ever heard

427
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:13,839
of the windigo

428
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:16,399
most likely the story that they've heard

429
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,000
bits and pieces of

430
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:21,120
is that of swift runner swift runner's

431
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:22,079
perhaps the most

432
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:24,720
infamous story of a person turning

433
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:25,839
windigo

434
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:28,639
and of course swift runner was a cree he

435
00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:30,480
was a trapper and hunter

436
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:33,040
living in alberta canada north of

437
00:16:37,470 --> 00:16:34,399
edmonton

438
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:37,480
and this was in the winter of 1878 and

439
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:39,759
1879 and swift runner

440
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:42,079
was this tall six foot three strapping

441
00:16:45,189 --> 00:16:42,800
man

442
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:45,199
he was about 40 winters of age when this

443
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:46,079
happened

444
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:48,800
and he had his family with him and what

445
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:50,000
normally would take place

446
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:52,160
for these tribes is that in the summer

447
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,920
they would have a huge community

448
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:55,839
they would all live together but when

449
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,360
winter sprung up

450
00:17:00,550 --> 00:17:00,079
they would go into these little pods far

451
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,560
away

452
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:03,040
in these family structures because game

453
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:04,000
would be spread out

454
00:17:07,630 --> 00:17:05,919
more and they'd have a better chance of

455
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:07,640
surviving not feeding

456
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,799
150 people so swift runner went off to

457
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:12,720
his winter hunting grounds

458
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:15,600
and bad things began happening to the

459
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:16,400
point where

460
00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:18,799
he was with his wife and their six

461
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:19,679
children

462
00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:22,000
and his mother and his brother and they

463
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:24,799
ended up splitting off and swift runner

464
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:27,919
started going crazy from starvation he

465
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:28,480
ended up

466
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,600
killing his entire family and then

467
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:33,679
consuming their bodies

468
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:37,760
over that winter his first

469
00:17:41,669 --> 00:17:40,799
kill if you will was his son that he

470
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:41,679
shot

471
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,760
and then he had to stab him and then he

472
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:45,600
met back up with his wife

473
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:47,760
and took out the rest of the children

474
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:49,679
and his wife except one

475
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:52,160
son that he traveled with the rest of

476
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:53,360
the winter that one

477
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:56,320
son had to consume his siblings and

478
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:57,360
watch his father

479
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:00,240
murder the family knowing deep down that

480
00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:02,960
he was the next to go

481
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,440
and then swift runner when spring came

482
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:07,760
along he went down into a community and

483
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,480
said

484
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:10,400
i have a terrible story to tell my

485
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:11,760
family starved to death

486
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:15,200
out in the uh elements and everyone

487
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:16,320
looked at him and

488
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:18,640
thought he doesn't look like he's been

489
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:19,440
starving

490
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:21,520
he looks healthier than ever so

491
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:23,600
authorities had him lead him back to his

492
00:18:26,830 --> 00:18:24,960
winter quarters

493
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:26,840
and that's when they found this virtual

494
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:29,280
graveyard of his family

495
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:38,549
so i mean and now generally is this um

496
00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:41,120
is this similar to other stories that

497
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:41,679
have

498
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:44,960
you know come up about when to go uh

499
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:48,640
possession it is in the manner of

500
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:51,760
swift runner reported several of the

501
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:53,679
same symptoms that a lot of

502
00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:56,000
other people who believed they were

503
00:19:00,029 --> 00:18:57,280
going windigo or

504
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:00,039
turning windigo would report

505
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:02,960
hallucinations or seeing things

506
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:05,280
calling out and groaning and pain and

507
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:06,960
making odd noises

508
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:09,679
being quiet and withdrawn personality

509
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:10,640
changes

510
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:14,160
uh apathy being uh depressed

511
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:17,520
and swift runner said that he actually

512
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:20,320
was possessed by the devil or the

513
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,039
windigo

514
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:23,600
and that made him do it that once he

515
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:26,160
shot and ate the last of his children

516
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:29,200
he had fully become the windigo and was

517
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:30,080
no longer

518
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,400
human and he was actually tried

519
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:37,120
convicted and ended his life at the end

520
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:38,799
of a gallows

521
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:41,440
for the murder of his family which he

522
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:42,000
believe

523
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:45,520
blamed on the possession of the windigo

524
00:19:49,270 --> 00:19:48,240
so a lot of these cases of the windigo

525
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:49,280
or someone

526
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:52,240
turning windigo they would often beg to

527
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:52,559
be

528
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:56,799
once they turned windigo

529
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:59,200
they were going to harm and kill and

530
00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:00,320
consume

531
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:02,480
their family and loved ones so they

532
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:03,360
begged

533
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:07,679
kill me before i turn windigo

534
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:10,159
so how did the the press back in those

535
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:13,280
days handle these stories

536
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:15,919
oh it seems like we have not progressed

537
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:16,960
much in the last

538
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:20,960
couple hundred years because the press

539
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:24,960
looked at those as savage beliefs

540
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:28,000
of primitive people that

541
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:31,679
they often uh acquainted it with uh

542
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:35,200
devil worship and being

543
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:38,720
savages that these people knew no better

544
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:42,080
and oftentimes it did play out to the

545
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:44,080
benefit of some of these people that

546
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:44,720
were

547
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:47,760
uh brought to a trial because

548
00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:50,799
at trial they would often say we knew

549
00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:53,039
nothing of the white man's law

550
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:55,360
we many of our tribes people had never

551
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:56,880
seen a white person

552
00:21:02,070 --> 00:20:59,919
so when the white uh law would hear

553
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,080
about these murders as they called them

554
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:04,480
these people killing the suspected

555
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:05,280
windigo

556
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:07,120
they would often try to make an example

557
00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:09,120
and go arrest these people

558
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:11,200
and the tribes people would go along

559
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:12,320
with them thinking

560
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:15,440
we've done nothing wrong we have nothing

561
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:16,480
to fear

562
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:19,679
but the newspapers were brutal uh

563
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:23,200
completely racist completely

564
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:26,720
uh downplaying any real belief that

565
00:21:30,310 --> 00:21:28,720
these things could be real

566
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:30,320
again they just saw it as these

567
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:32,480
uneducated savages

568
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:36,480
living in primitive times wow

569
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:39,760
now of course we know about uh other

570
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:42,799
tribes and other areas that have

571
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:45,919
these types of legends or these type of

572
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,600
paranormal beings uh and

573
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:51,440
just say the skin walker for instance

574
00:21:57,510 --> 00:21:53,679
where it's a

575
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:57,520
a uh a witch or something to do with the

576
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,000
occult

577
00:22:01,750 --> 00:22:00,720
that transforms into something else is

578
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:01,760
that

579
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:04,960
happens with

580
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:08,000
uh those who do when to go

581
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:10,640
the windigos seem to have supernatural

582
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:11,360
powers

583
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:14,559
not only could it manifest itself in any

584
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:16,159
size it wanted

585
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:18,880
it was impervious to any element it

586
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:20,240
never got cold

587
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:22,880
uh it needed to eat but that seemed to

588
00:22:28,149 --> 00:22:24,880
be more of a spiritual

589
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:28,159
uh a requirement than actual

590
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:31,360
sustenance and it could shape shift

591
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:34,400
many cultures were fearful that

592
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:38,159
the windigo would appear often as an owl

593
00:22:42,789 --> 00:22:40,880
that if an owl appeared in the community

594
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:42,799
it was either the windigo or a

595
00:22:50,149 --> 00:22:46,240
spy for the windigo there's often

596
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:50,159
uh also reports of mysterious black dogs

597
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:52,480
that would roam into a community

598
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:55,360
and the villagers or tribes folks would

599
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:56,480
believe that those

600
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:59,360
dogs were the windigo in its form is

601
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:00,159
that it could

602
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:03,520
shape-shift into any form it wanted to

603
00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:05,520
almost like the you know the shape

604
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:07,600
shifters or even the trickster there's a

605
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:08,320
lot of

606
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:10,720
trickster components in the windigo as

607
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:12,640
well and a lot of the

608
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:16,640
folklore or more fantastical stories of

609
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:17,440
the windigo

610
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:21,440
where it was outsmarted or a weasel

611
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:24,159
uh ran up its anus and ate it from the

612
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,200
inside out

613
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:27,200
those type of stories seem to fit in

614
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:36,070
you know there does seem to be a lot

615
00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:39,760
of these uh harbinger

616
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:42,400
sightings of other animals are actually

617
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:43,919
transformed

618
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:47,200
entities that precede

619
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:50,400
these suspected sightings it's

620
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:51,840
interesting you mentioned the owl

621
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:52,559
because

622
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,799
a friend of mine and i were actually

623
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:56,400
talking tonight about

624
00:24:02,630 --> 00:23:59,679
most most first nations

625
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:02,640
tribes kind of see the owl as a

626
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:03,600
harbinger

627
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:06,720
something not good to come and uh

628
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,919
the black dog as well that you know

629
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:12,240
that that is like a harbinger so i

630
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:14,559
suspect you know that's kind of the idea

631
00:24:19,669 --> 00:24:15,360
what

632
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:19,679
the wendigo is concerned

633
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:23,200
and in northern minnesota in the 1800s

634
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:25,279
and early 1900s

635
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:27,520
the windigo was thought to be a death

636
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:28,720
omen one of these

637
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:31,600
harbingers of death that there was a

638
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:32,799
white pioneer

639
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:34,720
that lived up there by the name of jake

640
00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:36,480
nelson and he wrote

641
00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:38,960
detailed reports in his journal about

642
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:39,919
the beliefs

643
00:24:43,269 --> 00:24:42,320
in that area of a place called indian

644
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:43,279
village

645
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:46,159
of the windigo that if the windigo was

646
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:48,960
spotted or if you heard it or saw it

647
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,279
much like hearing the irish banshee and

648
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:53,200
numerous other cryptids

649
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:55,200
that it meant you or someone you knew

650
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:56,320
was going to die

651
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:59,440
very shortly and sure enough jake nelson

652
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:00,000
reported

653
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:02,799
that each and every time it was spotted

654
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:04,320
in that village

655
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:07,279
someone died the very next day because

656
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:08,559
of the windigo

657
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:11,440
so the windigo in northern minnesota was

658
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:12,159
seen

659
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:18,789
wow yeah i mean i've been looking at

660
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:19,600
your book

661
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:22,240
you know and some of these pictures are

662
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:22,880
are

663
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:25,840
amazing uh and you you actually went to

664
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:28,480
a lot of these locations didn't you

665
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,520
i did and um myself and my co-author

666
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:34,000
kevin nelson we visited these places one

667
00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:34,480
of our

668
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:37,520
favorite places is a place called lake

669
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:38,320
windigo

670
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:40,960
in northern minnesota just east of

671
00:25:44,549 --> 00:25:43,360
bemidji which is paul bunyan country for

672
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:44,559
those of you not

673
00:25:48,789 --> 00:25:47,520
uh in the midwest and they have a place

674
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:48,799
called lake windigo

675
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:51,200
it's on an island in a lake which makes

676
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:53,520
it an anomaly in itself

677
00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:56,000
and many believe the the island is

678
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:57,279
haunted and the lake

679
00:26:00,789 --> 00:25:59,039
there are numerous legends one of my

680
00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:00,799
favorite stories tells of

681
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:03,279
people going out to the uh island and

682
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:05,360
the women set up base camp and started

683
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:06,159
cooking

684
00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:08,880
and the men went into the heart of the

685
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:10,000
woods to search for

686
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:12,240
game and when they never returned that

687
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,360
night the next day

688
00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:15,600
the concerned women went to look for

689
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:16,400
them

690
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,559
from trees

691
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,559
and they left the island and cursed it

692
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:24,480
saying it was bad medicine

693
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:26,559
they would never return to that island

694
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:27,840
ever again

695
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:29,919
and when help came those bodies were

696
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:31,360
never found

697
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:33,679
and in the middle of that island is lake

698
00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:34,720
windigo and

699
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,559
there are stories of people finding

700
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:38,640
giant holes in the lake

701
00:26:42,149 --> 00:26:41,360
with huge footprints coming out of the

702
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:42,159
water

703
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:44,400
leading to the island not as though

704
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:45,760
somebody walked out to the

705
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:48,240
lake and fell through but the windigo

706
00:26:53,110 --> 00:26:49,039
coming out

707
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:53,120
hunting for prey so during the winter

708
00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:55,440
a couple colleagues and i went on a

709
00:26:59,669 --> 00:26:57,200
camping expedition

710
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:59,679
to the area because the windigo is

711
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:01,600
associated with winter

712
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:04,400
and cold so we picked a cold weekend

713
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:06,000
where the wind chill was about 30

714
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:08,799
degrees below zero and we decided we

715
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:09,919
were going to camp

716
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:13,200
on the island uh right next to the lake

717
00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:15,120
and what's interesting is that one night

718
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:18,159
when we had a great base camp fire going

719
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:20,480
my colleague noah and i were walking

720
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,520
filming

721
00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:23,600
going to the lake to try to conjure up

722
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:25,360
the spirit of the windigo

723
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:27,520
and as we were filming noah stopped and

724
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:28,799
he said

725
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:30,880
our boots are crunching the snow too

726
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:32,559
loud nobody's going to even hear what

727
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:34,000
we're talking about

728
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:36,480
we have to be much quieter and as we

729
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:38,000
pause there for a moment

730
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:40,080
all of a sudden something on our left

731
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:42,320
startled us and really scared us

732
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:44,720
we couldn't see it but it was big up in

733
00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:45,600
the trees

734
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:48,159
and the camera we're filming shows us

735
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:48,799
both like

736
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:52,240
ducking down and most likely it was a

737
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:53,360
bird of prey or

738
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:56,240
even an owl but we didn't see anything

739
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:58,240
but i can tell you it got our adrenaline

740
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:01,200
going for the rest of the expedition

741
00:28:06,149 --> 00:28:05,120
wow i bet and that was an expedition

742
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:06,159
where

743
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:08,399
one of the ways that you can kill the

744
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:10,080
windigo is by pouring

745
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:13,200
hot tallow down his throat and tallow is

746
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:14,399
a beef or

747
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:17,919
moose or bear fat it's a rendered fat

748
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:19,919
and it was thought that if you poured

749
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:22,320
this down the windigo's

750
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:25,120
mouth it would defrost its icy heart and

751
00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:26,559
it would die

752
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,320
now how you're supposed to pour it down

753
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:30,240
his throat lon i don't know

754
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:33,039
yeah i i don't know if there's any any

755
00:28:37,269 --> 00:28:34,720
proof of that ever happening

756
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:37,279
no but we did have our tallow hot on our

757
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:39,200
fire the entire expedition

758
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:43,120
just in case um and again i wasn't

759
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:44,880
thinking that it would protect us

760
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:46,159
against the windigo but there's

761
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,640
something

762
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:49,440
psychological when your three-hour hike

763
00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:50,080
across

764
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:53,360
ice in the middle of nowhere 30

765
00:28:58,230 --> 00:28:55,760
degrees below zero there's something

766
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:58,240
psychological about having that

767
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:01,360
protection even if it would probably do

768
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,029
now you you have degrees in psychology

769
00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:11,760
what what is your take on this the when

770
00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:14,080
to go psychosis

771
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:16,880
yes i believe now my as you mentioned in

772
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:18,080
the great introduction

773
00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:20,159
my background i did both my bachelor's

774
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:22,000
and master's degree in the field of

775
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:23,120
psychology

776
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,919
i ended up doing my master's thesis on

777
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:27,120
exploring

778
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:30,240
students belief in the paranormal now

779
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:31,840
when to go psychosis

780
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:35,600
is uh it's not in the dsm which is the

781
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:38,000
diagnostic and statistical manual of

782
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:39,200
mental disorders

783
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:41,600
pretty much the bible for anyone in the

784
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:43,360
mental health field that's trying to

785
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:45,120
diagnose disorders

786
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:47,600
but it is seen as more of a culture

787
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:48,640
bound syndrome

788
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:51,200
meaning that they believe that it's a

789
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:51,760
mental

790
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:54,960
illness that is contained within

791
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:58,240
within one specific culture or segment

792
00:30:02,070 --> 00:30:00,799
of the society which would be in our

793
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:02,080
case the first nation

794
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:05,120
people of alberta uh canada

795
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,159
and across canada and i really see it

796
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:10,720
as uh what we've dubbed as white

797
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:11,679
splaining

798
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:19,039
400 plus years later us educated

799
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:22,399
westerners can look back on the first

800
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:23,919
nation primitive people

801
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,640
and say this thing wasn't real there

802
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:28,480
were no when to go creatures

803
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:30,640
they were simply suffering from a mental

804
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:32,480
illness that came with this

805
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:34,960
compulsion of violence and depression

806
00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:38,080
and this desire for human flesh

807
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:41,120
and sometimes actual cannibalism

808
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,120
but i really have a lot of trouble with

809
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:45,360
when to go psychosis because one i think

810
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:47,039
it's impossible

811
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,840
to really know what the people of that

812
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:51,600
era believed in

813
00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:53,600
unless you were there unless you lived

814
00:30:57,750 --> 00:30:55,360
in their belief systems

815
00:30:59,110 --> 00:30:57,760
unless you experienced what life was

816
00:31:02,389 --> 00:30:59,120
like i think it's just

817
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,399
too difficult centuries later

818
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,320
to look at these stories and explain

819
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:07,039
them away also i think it discredits a

820
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,960
lot of these stories that

821
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:10,880
there are many stories where people

822
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:13,360
killed a suspected windigo

823
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:16,000
and found that their heart or their

824
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:18,240
backbone or other organs

825
00:31:23,070 --> 00:31:21,279
seem to be encased in ice

826
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:23,080
and they weren't they weren't

827
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:25,120
misidentifying it they weren't making

828
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:26,880
these stories up so

829
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:29,360
if they if we take them for their word

830
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:30,080
on it

831
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:32,320
you know what was really happening and i

832
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:34,480
think wendigo psychosis

833
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:37,120
too easily dismisses this as a mental

834
00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:38,000
disorder

835
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:40,399
without looking at it as more of a

836
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:41,519
complex

837
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:45,200
uh social belief system right

838
00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:49,200
do you believe that possession

839
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:52,240
or someone who has

840
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:55,279
had a spirit of one of these

841
00:32:01,750 --> 00:31:58,480
beings attached to them can actually

842
00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:01,760
physically change well that's the

843
00:32:08,350 --> 00:32:02,799
reports

844
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:08,360
not only talked about mental

845
00:32:15,990 --> 00:32:09,760
transformations

846
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:16,000
and one of the weirdest ones uh first

847
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:17,360
documented by nathan

848
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:20,480
carlson in his windigo research was and

849
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:21,120
one we

850
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:24,080
found in many cases as well was this

851
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:25,120
unexplained

852
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:28,000
swelling of somebody that thought they

853
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:29,440
were turning windigo

854
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:32,000
they were starting to get really big and

855
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:33,120
swollen

856
00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:35,519
and minnie said they could not even

857
00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:37,600
recognize their loved one anymore that

858
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:38,240
their

859
00:32:45,269 --> 00:32:42,159
face had taken on a grotesque uh

860
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:45,279
image that they were terrified

861
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:48,000
and i think just diving back quick to

862
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:49,760
that when to go psychosis

863
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:52,159
one of the other components of it was

864
00:32:55,830 --> 00:32:52,960
that

865
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:55,840
these things were done these killings

866
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:56,720
were done

867
00:33:03,269 --> 00:32:59,760
merely out of a convenience

868
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:03,279
that tribes people could kill their weak

869
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:06,960
their elderly their frail and then

870
00:33:10,149 --> 00:33:09,440
have the wind to go absolve them of any

871
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:10,159
guilt

872
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:12,480
because they could state we weren't

873
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:13,760
killing grandma

874
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:16,799
or uncle whoever it was they were

875
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:17,279
turning

876
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:20,880
windigo we were saving the community

877
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:22,960
but when you look at when you look at

878
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:25,679
the original literature

879
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:29,039
it's completely opposite of that so many

880
00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:30,240
of these people

881
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:32,799
tried to save their loved ones often

882
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:34,320
they would try to save them

883
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:37,760
tie them up um try to cure them for

884
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:40,960
weeks on end now imagine you're in the

885
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:41,600
middle of

886
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:45,600
nowhere no medical facilities no doctors

887
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:47,919
your shaman is trying to perform some

888
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:49,600
medicine on this person

889
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,640
who at night starts to struggle and say

890
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:54,720
that if you let me out of these ropes

891
00:33:57,909 --> 00:33:56,720
i'm going to grab an axe and kill you

892
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:57,919
and eat you

893
00:34:01,430 --> 00:34:00,080
and they do this screaming at you for

894
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:01,440
weeks on end

895
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:03,440
but these people still tried to cure

896
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:05,200
them which is

897
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:08,399
beyond you know caring in my book

898
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:10,320
that you know i think for a lot of

899
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:12,240
people three nights of that and that

900
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:13,359
person's gone

901
00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:18,079
yeah do you um

902
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:20,320
do you think there were any actual

903
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:23,040
physical diseases that were

904
00:34:30,069 --> 00:34:26,879
either misidentified as

905
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:30,079
when to go or maybe

906
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:33,520
led to this yes i think it's

907
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,960
easy to uh to see

908
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:38,960
a lot of the mental illness that may

909
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:41,200
come around it a lot of the

910
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:43,679
things of the symptoms of when to go

911
00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:46,159
psychosis or turning windigo

912
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:49,839
seem to mirror general uh disorders

913
00:34:54,149 --> 00:34:52,720
and mental disorders as i said you know

914
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:54,159
being withdrawn

915
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:57,119
personality changes feeling depressed

916
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:57,920
having no

917
00:35:01,510 --> 00:35:00,720
energy those type of things happen quite

918
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:01,520
a bit

919
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:04,320
in modern times with our mental

920
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:06,000
illnesses as well

921
00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:08,480
you also have to look at seasonal affect

922
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,240
disorder

923
00:35:13,829 --> 00:35:12,480
of how it affects today people in the

924
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:13,839
u.s where

925
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:16,720
we've had the easiest living conditions

926
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,040
than

927
00:35:20,470 --> 00:35:19,599
anyone in the history of this country in

928
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:20,480
terms of

929
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:23,040
we have heat we have electricity we have

930
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:24,400
indoor plumbing we have

931
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:27,680
food but yet the lack of sun still

932
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:31,040
affects us and still puts people into

933
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:34,560
you know feeling feeling low on energy

934
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:35,760
and depressed so

935
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:38,640
i think that may have factored in as

936
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,599
well

937
00:35:44,310 --> 00:35:41,680
and it's certainly not the cause of it

938
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:44,320
but it might have been a condition that

939
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:48,640
really settled in and made it even worse

940
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:52,720
wow you know

941
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:55,839
you look at these uh you look at these

942
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:58,880
stories legends tales and such

943
00:36:02,310 --> 00:36:01,760
i mean these people that were living in

944
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:02,320
these

945
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:12,470
without a doubt the windigo the fear of

946
00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:13,599
this creature was

947
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:16,560
unlike anything i've ever researched any

948
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:17,680
other creature

949
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:21,280
haunting whatever it is nothing compares

950
00:36:25,030 --> 00:36:23,359
to the fear of the windigo i'll give you

951
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:25,040
two quick examples

952
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:28,480
as to illustrate the fear there's a

953
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:29,839
story in canada

954
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:32,960
in the newspapers of a certain tribe

955
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:36,079
that heard they didn't see they didn't

956
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:39,119
hear it they heard of the creature

957
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:41,760
coming toward their village someone told

958
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:44,240
them a windigo was on the prowl

959
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:46,000
be on the lookout they didn't hear it

960
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:48,320
they didn't see it but that fear was

961
00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:50,240
enough to keep them inside their

962
00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:52,400
shelters during the winter

963
00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:55,119
so much so that they would not come out

964
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:56,800
and hunt for game

965
00:37:01,750 --> 00:36:59,599
several of them starved to death because

966
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:01,760
they would not leave their shelter

967
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:04,160
on the mere whisper that a windigo was

968
00:37:09,349 --> 00:37:06,240
in the area

969
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:09,359
wow and the other story

970
00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:12,720
this is just crazy the amount of effort

971
00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:13,280
they took

972
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:15,920
to make sure that somebody going windigo

973
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:17,359
would not come back

974
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:20,640
to haunt them or to curse them there's a

975
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:23,040
story up in the lesser slave lake area

976
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:24,240
of alberta

977
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:26,480
canada and this story dates back to the

978
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:28,720
uh 1899 the winter

979
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,880
and it involves a native or first nation

980
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:32,800
man named mustus

981
00:37:37,109 --> 00:37:35,520
and he was going crazy for many days

982
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,119
they tried to cure him

983
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,200
they brought the shaman brought his best

984
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:40,800
medicine and nothing

985
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:43,680
worked and he said i'm going to kill all

986
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:45,760
of you i'm going to eat you

987
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:47,680
finally the tribe could take it no

988
00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:50,079
longer several people hit him with an

989
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:51,520
axe in the chest

990
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:54,560
splitting open his chest and he dropped

991
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:55,520
to the ground

992
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:58,320
and was in the state of dying but that

993
00:38:02,069 --> 00:38:00,079
wasn't enough for the people

994
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:02,079
because they believed he would simply

995
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:04,000
heal himself and get back up

996
00:38:07,510 --> 00:38:06,720
and come after them so they drove a

997
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:07,520
stake

998
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:09,920
through the axe hole in his chest

999
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:12,240
pinning him to the ground in case

1000
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:15,119
he tried to get back up that he would be

1001
00:38:18,069 --> 00:38:15,680
actually

1002
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:18,079
pinned to the ground but that wasn't

1003
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:19,280
enough for them

1004
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:22,320
so as the hours went by that evening

1005
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:25,119
they took that pin or that steak out of

1006
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:26,079
his chest

1007
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:29,440
and they poured hot tea in that hole

1008
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:33,119
trying to defrost his icy heart then

1009
00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:36,079
they simply did not give up they tied

1010
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:37,839
his legs together

1011
00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:40,240
with some chains pinning him to the

1012
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:43,119
ground they restaked him in the ground

1013
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:46,079
and eventually as daylight was coming

1014
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:48,000
just to be certain he was dead

1015
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:55,190
sounds a lot like the vampire strigolli

1016
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:58,000
legends well again does it make sense

1017
00:39:02,470 --> 00:38:59,599
that if you're trying to get rid of a

1018
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:02,480
loved one who's no longer capable of

1019
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:06,000
uh being part of the society

1020
00:39:09,109 --> 00:39:08,240
don't you just strangle them or shoot

1021
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:09,119
them or

1022
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:10,960
do something you're going through a lot

1023
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:13,440
of work to put on a show that you think

1024
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:14,640
it's a windigo

1025
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:16,720
i mean these people were absolutely

1026
00:39:21,910 --> 00:39:18,000
terrified

1027
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:21,920
of the windigo wow

1028
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:25,359
so um speaking of cures what did they

1029
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:28,800
consider a cure or was there no cure

1030
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,640
that's a tricky question and very

1031
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:32,160
confusing and

1032
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:33,760
as we go through this i want your

1033
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,359
listeners to try

1034
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:38,160
not only to keep these straight but then

1035
00:39:41,349 --> 00:39:38,640
try

1036
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:41,359
doing it when you're in the midst of a

1037
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:42,160
panic

1038
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:45,280
because a giant cannibalistic monster is

1039
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:47,280
outside your structure

1040
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:50,480
so for uh curing it there were several

1041
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:52,240
ways in which you could cure

1042
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:55,920
a windigo but only before it fully

1043
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,320
turned into a flesh and blood

1044
00:40:01,990 --> 00:40:00,720
and where that line was where somebody

1045
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:02,000
who was possessed

1046
00:40:08,309 --> 00:40:05,440
fully had turned i don't know it's very

1047
00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:08,319
shady but you could cure them for

1048
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:10,640
several means one as i mentioned the hot

1049
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,599
tallow

1050
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:13,760
not only were they used to kill the

1051
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,960
windigo

1052
00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:17,040
but it was also thought that if somebody

1053
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:18,480
was turning windigo

1054
00:40:22,790 --> 00:40:20,720
you could pour hot tallow and it would

1055
00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:22,800
cure them it would defrost the heart

1056
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:25,920
before it fully became encased in ice

1057
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:28,079
and a lot of skeptics and researchers

1058
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:29,040
claimed that

1059
00:40:32,309 --> 00:40:30,960
it was really that if you're starving to

1060
00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:32,319
death the

1061
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:35,599
influx of the heavily fat containing

1062
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:36,480
tallow

1063
00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:38,640
would do the body and the mind a lot of

1064
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:40,960
good in a short amount of time

1065
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:43,280
that it wasn't that you were defrosting

1066
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:45,680
his icy heart but you were simply

1067
00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:48,160
providing nutrients that were lacking

1068
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:49,680
for so many months

1069
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,680
so you could give it hot tallow it could

1070
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:53,040
also be cured

1071
00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:56,400
by a powerful shaman like jack

1072
00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:59,200
fiddler who was one of the best known

1073
00:41:04,150 --> 00:41:00,560
windigo hunters

1074
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:04,160
of all time he was said to be powerful

1075
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:04,880
enough

1076
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:07,280
to actually cure people of being a

1077
00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:08,160
windigo

1078
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,800
there's one case where jack fiddler was

1079
00:41:15,829 --> 00:41:12,480
called by tribe members

1080
00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:15,839
because a man was acting crazy in a tent

1081
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:18,400
and saying he was turning windigo so

1082
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:20,480
jack fiddler simply showed up

1083
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:22,400
picked the man up started throwing him

1084
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:24,560
to the ground and whipping him

1085
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,960
saying if you turn into a windigo i'm

1086
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:28,319
going to kill you

1087
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:31,839
i have the power to do it and

1088
00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:34,800
according to the records that worked the

1089
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:35,200
man

1090
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:37,440
said the whipping and the fear of being

1091
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,040
killed by the shaman

1092
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:41,760
was enough to get rid of the windigo it

1093
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:44,079
also happened where religious leaders

1094
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:45,680
could cure windigo

1095
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:48,240
oftentimes tribespeople who were brought

1096
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:49,040
to the

1097
00:41:52,470 --> 00:41:51,920
missionaries and the chapels that were

1098
00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:52,480
there

1099
00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:55,359
would often be cured but again was that

1100
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:56,960
due to the warm weather

1101
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:00,000
the food the dry

1102
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:02,560
living environment or was it the power

1103
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:03,359
of belief

1104
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:05,920
that if you believe some higher power is

1105
00:42:10,630 --> 00:42:07,280
going to cure you

1106
00:42:14,829 --> 00:42:10,640
whether it's a priest or a shaman maybe

1107
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:17,589
wow uh

1108
00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:21,200
now talking about the modern wendigo

1109
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:24,319
and some of the stories associated with

1110
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:26,000
now the only one i can really

1111
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:28,960
think of that's been documented is the

1112
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:30,400
individual

1113
00:42:35,190 --> 00:42:33,040
who claimed he was a when to go are

1114
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:35,200
transformed into a windigo

1115
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:38,160
while aboard the greyhound bus i think

1116
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:40,880
that was with 2008.

1117
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:44,560
i mean remember seeing this story

1118
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:46,880
uh they were traveling from edmonton to

1119
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:47,839
winnipeg

1120
00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:49,680
and this guy just went completely nuts

1121
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:52,480
and started chewing on people

1122
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:56,079
yes mr lee who's now out of psychiatric

1123
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:58,079
care and is a free man

1124
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:01,359
if you're looking to ride the greyhound

1125
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,599
he was on board the greyhound now what's

1126
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:05,040
interesting about this case

1127
00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:07,920
is really i think this was propped up in

1128
00:43:12,069 --> 00:43:10,000
the media to be more than it was in

1129
00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:12,079
terms of its connection to the windigo

1130
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:14,240
where it came out in court records that

1131
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:15,359
mr lee

1132
00:43:19,109 --> 00:43:18,480
believed he was uh hearing from the

1133
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:19,119
devil or

1134
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,800
aliens or something it wasn't the

1135
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:23,040
windigo he believed that he was being

1136
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:25,040
told that if he didn't kill the person

1137
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:26,160
next to him

1138
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:28,400
that that person was a demon or was

1139
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:30,720
going to harm him in some way

1140
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:34,160
so during the greyhound ride he simply

1141
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:36,000
turned to the man next to him who was

1142
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,000
sleeping with his earphones on

1143
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:40,720
and started stabbing him to death and

1144
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:42,640
the bus driver pulled over

1145
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:44,800
and everybody scurried off the bus and

1146
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:46,800
they propped the doors closed

1147
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:50,240
trapping mr lee with the victim

1148
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:53,040
who was already deceased at that time

1149
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:54,560
and that's when he

1150
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:56,640
cut off the head and was carrying it

1151
00:43:59,109 --> 00:43:58,640
around through the windows like some

1152
00:44:01,829 --> 00:43:59,119
sort of

1153
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:01,839
grisly trophy and he did consume

1154
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:03,040
portions of

1155
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:06,319
his victim's body and because it was in

1156
00:44:11,990 --> 00:44:09,040
canada and because of the cannibalism

1157
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:12,000
that transpired that he was deemed a

1158
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:13,520
windigo even though

1159
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:15,119
it was never brought up about the

1160
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:17,040
windigo it was more of

1161
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:19,760
um you know demonic possession type

1162
00:44:24,390 --> 00:44:22,720
where he was hearing voices and

1163
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:24,400
but i think if this would have happened

1164
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:26,960
anywhere else it would not have had a

1165
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:27,920
windigo

1166
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:30,480
label attached to it uh when people were

1167
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:32,880
going crazy in florida on bath salts and

1168
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:35,359
eating the faces off of one another

1169
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:37,839
nobody brought up windigo here in

1170
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:40,400
wisconsin when jeffrey dahmer or

1171
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:43,599
ed gein resorted to cannibalism

1172
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:45,520
nobody brought up the windigo even

1173
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:47,280
though we're in the northwoods

1174
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:50,000
of the great lakes so i think just

1175
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,839
because it was in canada

1176
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:53,839
that it got this and there's a whole

1177
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:55,680
section in the book where we addressed

1178
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:57,040
this because it got

1179
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:00,079
a lot of international news and

1180
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:03,280
we were debating or tempted to try to

1181
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:05,520
contact mr lee for an interview for the

1182
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:06,560
book but

1183
00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:09,040
we felt it best just to let that uh

1184
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:09,599
segment

1185
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:12,640
go uh a bit yeah i think that would have

1186
00:45:17,109 --> 00:45:14,720
been an interesting interview i mean the

1187
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,119
fact that the guy's out now

1188
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:19,599
uh i don't know if it has anything to do

1189
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:21,200
to say about the uh

1190
00:45:28,550 --> 00:45:24,240
the criminal justice system in

1191
00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:28,560
canada but i i really doubt that he

1192
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:30,640
he would have been out walking around

1193
00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:32,560
here in the united states but then again

1194
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:33,920
what do i know

1195
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:36,400
yeah i would feel a little safer there

1196
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:38,720
with maybe a few more years of treatment

1197
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:39,760
before

1198
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:42,560
uh letting him out but again you know

1199
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:43,920
canada is a

1200
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:47,119
not only a whole different place

1201
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:49,200
politically and socially but if you've

1202
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:51,440
never been to canada

1203
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:54,480
it's very difficult to

1204
00:46:00,630 --> 00:45:57,680
overstate how vast and wild

1205
00:46:02,309 --> 00:46:00,640
it is that you can go 30 minutes out of

1206
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:02,319
a big city and you're

1207
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:06,720
in nowhere for miles and miles and miles

1208
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:09,599
nothing is around you except a heavy

1209
00:46:12,309 --> 00:46:10,000
thick

1210
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:12,319
forest it's you know i grew up here in

1211
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:13,119
wisconsin

1212
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:15,119
we have a lot of thick forests in the

1213
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:17,200
north woods you can get lost pretty

1214
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:18,480
easily but

1215
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:21,760
nothing compared to just how gigantic

1216
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:24,800
and desolate canada is

1217
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:27,040
oh absolutely i can attest to that i

1218
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:28,720
used to spend time

1219
00:46:33,109 --> 00:46:31,680
up in the algonquin provincial park in

1220
00:46:36,309 --> 00:46:33,119
ontario

1221
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:36,319
and uh that's that is that you know

1222
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:37,680
you're like in the middle of nowhere

1223
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:39,599
there

1224
00:46:42,630 --> 00:46:41,440
it really does have and that was one of

1225
00:46:45,190 --> 00:46:42,640
the things when

1226
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:45,200
for i don't know 15 years or so i had

1227
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:47,280
been researching swift runner who i just

1228
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:48,560
talked about earlier

1229
00:46:54,069 --> 00:46:51,760
right consuming his family and

1230
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:54,079
every story i tried to dig up about him

1231
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,200
his court records

1232
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:57,839
everything but it wasn't until last year

1233
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:58,319
that i

1234
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:00,880
finally was able to go to the places

1235
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:02,240
where he lived

1236
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:05,440
and he died and he loved and that's when

1237
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:06,640
it really set in

1238
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:09,440
and i can tell you that i was not

1239
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:10,319
prepared

1240
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:13,440
for the emotional wallop that that

1241
00:47:17,589 --> 00:47:16,560
visit had on me and for 20 some years

1242
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:17,599
i've investigated

1243
00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:20,240
serial killers mob hits all these

1244
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:20,800
haunted

1245
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,599
gruesome places and people doing a

1246
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:25,839
abhorrent things to one another

1247
00:47:30,309 --> 00:47:28,480
but i thought i was pretty immune to

1248
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:30,319
that but there was something about just

1249
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:31,119
being

1250
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:33,599
in those thick wooded areas and putting

1251
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:34,240
myself

1252
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:38,000
in the view of his last young child

1253
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:40,480
that was traveling with him having to

1254
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:42,880
know that he was next in line

1255
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:45,520
for the acts that it was just something

1256
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:46,079
that

1257
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:49,680
even now you know seven eight months

1258
00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:54,000
later on cold wisconsin nights i'm still

1259
00:48:00,390 --> 00:47:57,680
struck with that chill from swift runner

1260
00:48:01,109 --> 00:48:00,400
just because of the brutality of of that

1261
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:01,119
case

1262
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:04,079
oh i can imagine that sticks with you my

1263
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:05,359
god i mean you know

1264
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:08,640
especially as desolate those areas are

1265
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,960
and that these stories coming out of

1266
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:12,640
those areas

1267
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:15,200
and of course people you know i imagine

1268
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:17,440
some of the people you talk to

1269
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:21,680
up there kind of added to the flavor of

1270
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:23,440
the story

1271
00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:25,920
it really was and it was fun to see the

1272
00:48:29,829 --> 00:48:27,599
differences between

1273
00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:29,839
sometimes you'd talk with an old timer

1274
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:30,880
that would have

1275
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:33,040
more of a personal story of hearing

1276
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:34,000
these legends as

1277
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:36,400
they grew up and then oftentimes you

1278
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:37,839
talk to younger people

1279
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:40,240
teenagers and they they knew of the

1280
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:41,200
story

1281
00:48:44,309 --> 00:48:43,040
and oftentimes they knew of it as a

1282
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:44,319
legend there was this

1283
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:47,680
uh uh we were in um a town and we spoke

1284
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:48,480
with this

1285
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:51,680
uh a waitress at a local diner and

1286
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,640
she told us the story in her town where

1287
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:56,240
the windigo was said to have been

1288
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:58,400
chopped up into several pieces

1289
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:00,960
and spread out to the four corners of

1290
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:02,240
the town

1291
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:05,040
and buried so it could never come back

1292
00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:05,520
but

1293
00:49:09,829 --> 00:49:07,440
even to that day they were kind of

1294
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:09,839
apprehensive that the body might

1295
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:12,079
reform itself and come back seeking

1296
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:17,750
you know i found one one part of your

1297
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:19,280
book very interesting where you

1298
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:20,559
mentioned

1299
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:23,920
how the um the creatures in game of

1300
00:49:29,589 --> 00:49:25,920
thrones are actually

1301
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:29,599
in george r.r martin's novel

1302
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:32,800
are very much are very similar to

1303
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:36,000
the the wendigo the white walkers uh

1304
00:49:39,190 --> 00:49:37,680
do you believe that was done on purpose

1305
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:39,200
or you just believe that that

1306
00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:41,680
that's just the way it turned up no i

1307
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:42,480
believe that

1308
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:44,160
and that section that chapter was

1309
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:46,640
written by my co-author kevin nelson and

1310
00:49:49,829 --> 00:49:48,480
uh we talked about it and we think it

1311
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:49,839
was done on

1312
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:53,280
purpose that again it's it's

1313
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:56,480
taking that innate fear

1314
00:50:03,349 --> 00:49:59,920
that humans have of this tall

1315
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:03,359
grotesque thin looking monster of ice

1316
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:05,520
and just how terrifying that would have

1317
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:07,680
been it's much like with the

1318
00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:10,240
new antlers movie that is scheduled for

1319
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:12,480
uh released next year now

1320
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:15,680
um del toro's new movie where

1321
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:19,680
they get into a windigo story without

1322
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:21,839
overly stating that it's a windigo

1323
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:24,240
leaving it up to your interpretation

1324
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:26,880
and i think in some places that's even

1325
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:28,880
scarier than labeling it

1326
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,520
the windigo because now your imagination

1327
00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:33,440
goes crazy

1328
00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:35,839
wow well del toro be the perfect person

1329
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:38,319
to do a movie like that

1330
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:39,839
yeah and again it's the it's called

1331
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:42,160
antlers and it it has the more of that

1332
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:43,200
modern

1333
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:45,680
uh view of the the windigo as this

1334
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:46,400
antlered

1335
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:48,640
monster if any of your listeners are

1336
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:51,280
fans of the tv show supernatural

1337
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:54,000
they did an episode where it had antlers

1338
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:55,200
as well

1339
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:58,720
and a lot of people now think that's the

1340
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:01,520
the modern windigo and in some regards

1341
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:04,960
it is because when these legends and

1342
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:05,680
folklore

1343
00:51:09,349 --> 00:51:07,520
when they progress and morph through

1344
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:09,359
decade after decade

1345
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:11,520
at some point that does become the

1346
00:51:17,510 --> 00:51:13,680
legend

1347
00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:17,520
wow well let me ask you this

1348
00:51:24,069 --> 00:51:20,720
and this is something i just thought of

1349
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:24,079
you you hear of people

1350
00:51:31,109 --> 00:51:27,680
that develop or manifest

1351
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:31,119
thought forms or tulpas

1352
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:33,440
do you believe there's a possibility

1353
00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:34,160
that

1354
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:37,280
some of these entities

1355
00:51:42,549 --> 00:51:40,480
could actually been manifested by the

1356
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:42,559
mind

1357
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:45,599
without a doubt and my again my

1358
00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:47,920
colleague kevin nelson who's

1359
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:50,960
much more schooled in the occult than i

1360
00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:54,960
am did a chapter on the shamans

1361
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:57,040
and what role they played with the

1362
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:58,160
windigo

1363
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:00,160
because not only would they be called

1364
00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:02,720
upon to fight the windigo in the spirit

1365
00:52:06,309 --> 00:52:04,000
world in a shaking

1366
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:06,319
tent where they would go in and call in

1367
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:08,800
spirits and animals to help them

1368
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:11,599
fight the windigo they could also summon

1369
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:12,400
it

1370
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:15,440
of

1371
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:24,000
but a powerful

1372
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:26,880
shaman was said to be able to create one

1373
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:28,160
of these things

1374
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:30,960
and send it to do its bidding so it's

1375
00:52:34,190 --> 00:52:31,599
very

1376
00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:34,200
likely that these things could have

1377
00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:35,359
materialized

1378
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:38,960
out of nowhere again so much of the lore

1379
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:40,400
of the windigo

1380
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:43,599
was lost to history because people

1381
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:46,240
when you're on the verge of starvation

1382
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:48,160
you're not sitting down with a notebook

1383
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:49,839
writing down legends

1384
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:52,319
you're trying to survive so so much of

1385
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:54,079
the oral stories

1386
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:57,520
were lost over the last 300 years that

1387
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:59,520
i think you could do 10 more books on

1388
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:00,640
what was lost

1389
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:03,440
but i certainly think that the belief in

1390
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:04,800
the windigo

1391
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:07,200
had some effect not only on its

1392
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:08,960
appearing and summoning

1393
00:53:15,670 --> 00:53:14,309
now before we uh end the show can you

1394
00:53:18,069 --> 00:53:15,680
tell us another

1395
00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:18,079
uh older story about a when to go

1396
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:19,760
possession

1397
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:22,960
yes this is a a great story and this

1398
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:24,079
happened

1399
00:53:28,870 --> 00:53:27,119
well let me first state that windigo uh

1400
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:28,880
the creatures could be male

1401
00:53:32,870 --> 00:53:31,599
or female many people thought they were

1402
00:53:35,349 --> 00:53:32,880
genderless but no

1403
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:35,359
they were often reported as having a

1404
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:36,079
gender

1405
00:53:39,349 --> 00:53:38,240
there are even occasional reports of

1406
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:39,359
when to go creatures

1407
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:42,720
living with one another in almost a pack

1408
00:53:47,349 --> 00:53:44,240
of some sort but

1409
00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:47,359
this story involves uh marie cootrae

1410
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:50,559
and this goes back to the 1800s as well

1411
00:53:53,829 --> 00:53:52,800
and she was traveling with her husband

1412
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:53,839
and his

1413
00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:56,880
son it was her son-in-law it was uh

1414
00:54:01,990 --> 00:53:59,599
her second marriage her first marriage

1415
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:02,000
with all of her children ended terribly

1416
00:54:06,710 --> 00:54:04,160
as though she was cursed she started

1417
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:06,720
losing her husband and all the children

1418
00:54:10,950 --> 00:54:09,359
in freak accidents and deaths but anyway

1419
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:10,960
she's traveling

1420
00:54:14,470 --> 00:54:13,839
traveling with her husband and his son

1421
00:54:17,270 --> 00:54:14,480
and

1422
00:54:17,829 --> 00:54:17,280
she starts to act very strange where the

1423
00:54:20,549 --> 00:54:17,839
husband

1424
00:54:20,950 --> 00:54:20,559
notices weird things are happening a few

1425
00:54:23,670 --> 00:54:20,960
days

1426
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:23,680
into their track so over the course of

1427
00:54:28,390 --> 00:54:25,200
the next week

1428
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:28,400
she starts turning into a windigo even

1429
00:54:32,390 --> 00:54:29,920
telling her husband

1430
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:32,400
i'm turning into a windigo help me i do

1431
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:33,920
not want to harm you

1432
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:36,559
i do not want to kill you you have to

1433
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:37,760
kill me

1434
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:39,520
and the husband and the son said we

1435
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:42,000
cannot kill you we love you too much

1436
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:46,079
we will cure you so for the next 21 days

1437
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:49,200
they spent every moment trying to cure

1438
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:50,960
her

1439
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:53,760
they could not they eventually ended up

1440
00:54:58,549 --> 00:54:55,520
having to kill her

1441
00:55:00,789 --> 00:54:58,559
and they um killed her with an

1442
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:00,799
axe and then buried her body right away

1443
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:02,640
now the interesting thing is

1444
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:05,280
lon that when you killed a suspected

1445
00:55:09,750 --> 00:55:06,640
windigo

1446
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:09,760
the only real way to make sure that it

1447
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:11,359
would never come back

1448
00:55:15,750 --> 00:55:14,160
was to cremate it burn it so not one

1449
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:15,760
piece of it remained

1450
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:18,000
otherwise the belief was it would repair

1451
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,880
itself

1452
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:20,640
go back into the woods and wait for

1453
00:55:23,349 --> 00:55:22,559
someone to go hunting and then possess

1454
00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:23,359
them

1455
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:26,559
but they didn't cremate her they just

1456
00:55:30,549 --> 00:55:28,160
simply buried her

1457
00:55:32,789 --> 00:55:30,559
and again the white law enforcement

1458
00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:32,799
found out about this and arrested

1459
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,880
the husband and his son they were

1460
00:55:40,309 --> 00:55:36,720
eventually convicted and spent

1461
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,319
six months in prison for this murder but

1462
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:42,720
most of the murders of the suspected

1463
00:55:46,630 --> 00:55:43,760
windigo

1464
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:46,640
they were done by family members which

1465
00:55:50,789 --> 00:55:47,520
cut down

1466
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:50,799
on the idea of retaliation from somebody

1467
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:53,599
who might not have agreed with it

1468
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:56,000
because it was a family they were

1469
00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:58,559
expected to do this and many times

1470
00:56:02,789 --> 00:56:00,480
they were forced to do it where the

1471
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:02,799
entire community or the tribe would say

1472
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:05,119
you have to do it to save the rest of us

1473
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:07,200
but marie kutray was buried

1474
00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:10,079
along the shores of lesser slave lake

1475
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:11,040
her grave

1476
00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:13,280
which is unmarked is still up there and

1477
00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:14,400
those who know

1478
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:16,720
when the galore know that she was never

1479
00:56:19,829 --> 00:56:18,000
cremated

1480
00:56:22,710 --> 00:56:19,839
and i can tell you while we were walking

1481
00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:22,720
around we had our hands on our hatchets

1482
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:28,390
i bet you did you know it's canada there

1483
00:56:32,870 --> 00:56:30,559
are no guns allowed which

1484
00:56:34,470 --> 00:56:32,880
wouldn't have helped us anyway but uh

1485
00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:34,480
our hatchet certainly

1486
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:38,000
gave us some sense of safety

1487
00:56:42,349 --> 00:56:40,640
and that area in alberta also had

1488
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:42,359
stories going back to the

1489
00:56:48,069 --> 00:56:45,760
1700s of a place called eating creek

1490
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:48,079
and eating creek road where it was said

1491
00:56:51,910 --> 00:56:49,280
that one of these

1492
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:51,920
flesh-and-blood windigos actually lived

1493
00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:53,440
for many years

1494
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:56,000
and it would often consume people and

1495
00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:58,240
tribes folk would often tell

1496
00:57:01,990 --> 00:57:01,119
any white missionaries or fur traders to

1497
00:57:05,030 --> 00:57:02,000
avoid that

1498
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:05,040
area unless they be eaten by this giant

1499
00:57:10,230 --> 00:57:07,200
windigo

1500
00:57:12,789 --> 00:57:10,240
wow so chad

1501
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:12,799
what uh what do you have coming up in

1502
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:14,160
the future uh

1503
00:57:20,789 --> 00:57:18,079
appearances books what's up

1504
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:20,799
yeah i'm right now after and let me tell

1505
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:21,599
you i've done

1506
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:24,559
25 books on the paranormal 20 years of

1507
00:57:29,030 --> 00:57:26,880
doing this um

1508
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:29,040
i think this is the most important work

1509
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:30,079
that i've done

1510
00:57:33,670 --> 00:57:32,960
and the most complex puzzling and

1511
00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:33,680
hardest

1512
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:36,640
work of research that i've done as you

1513
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:38,480
and i were talking earlier

1514
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:40,400
you know i've done this for 20 years

1515
00:57:44,069 --> 00:57:41,920
with the windigo and still

1516
00:57:45,109 --> 00:57:44,079
feel like i know very little about the

1517
00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:45,119
legend

1518
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:48,079
so i'm shifting over right now and doing

1519
00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:49,200
something a little

1520
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:52,000
less serious where my next book is going

1521
00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:54,480
to be on supernatural dares

1522
00:57:57,910 --> 00:57:56,720
where people dare one another to do

1523
00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:57,920
things at these

1524
00:58:01,990 --> 00:58:00,799
places where if you sit on the mausoleum

1525
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:02,000
the ghost of the

1526
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:04,079
people buried inside will come out and

1527
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:05,839
haunt you those type of things

1528
00:58:12,150 --> 00:58:09,200
wow so a little a little less serious

1529
00:58:12,630 --> 00:58:12,160
uh than the windigo because this really

1530
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:12,640
was

1531
00:58:17,829 --> 00:58:16,079
a again a book that had profound impact

1532
00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:17,839
on me

1533
00:58:24,390 --> 00:58:21,760
it's a marvelous book i mean i uh

1534
00:58:25,510 --> 00:58:24,400
like i told you earlier i it's it's one

1535
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:25,520
subject that i've

1536
00:58:32,789 --> 00:58:28,880
really never have been

1537
00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:32,799
very good at you know recognizing

1538
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:36,000
the phenomena and you know but i i

1539
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:37,440
have learned a lot from the book and

1540
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:39,040
i've learned a lot from you talking

1541
00:58:42,549 --> 00:58:41,760
tonight now the book is titled wendigo

1542
00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:42,559
lore

1543
00:58:47,750 --> 00:58:46,640
monsters miss and madness and i highly

1544
00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:47,760
recommend it i

1545
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:49,920
really do it's it's fantastic and i

1546
00:58:53,109 --> 00:58:51,359
agree with you i think it's your best

1547
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:53,119
book so far

1548
00:58:56,549 --> 00:58:55,920
and one last thing for your listeners is

1549
00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:56,559
that

1550
00:59:00,069 --> 00:58:59,119
the windigo not only could possess

1551
00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:00,079
people

1552
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:02,720
it could possess uh obviously the old

1553
00:59:06,069 --> 00:59:03,520
but also

1554
00:59:06,549 --> 00:59:06,079
babies there are stories of babies being

1555
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:06,559
killed

1556
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:09,280
after trying to eat at their mother and

1557
00:59:13,109 --> 00:59:10,079
chew on them

1558
00:59:15,030 --> 00:59:13,119
and also animals could turn windigo

1559
00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:15,040
so all of your listeners out there

1560
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:16,960
getting ready for bed or whatever

1561
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:18,240
they're doing

1562
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:21,040
no one is safe from the windigo well

1563
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:23,040
definitely get this book and be sure

1564
00:59:26,470 --> 00:59:24,480
make sure you read it right before you

1565
00:59:29,670 --> 00:59:26,480
go to sleep

1566
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:29,680
perfect advice right so chad thanks

1567
00:59:32,789 --> 00:59:31,280
again for coming on the show it's always

1568
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:32,799
great talking to you

1569
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:35,040
and uh when the next book comes out i

1570
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:37,119
will definitely have you on

1571
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:40,000
thank you and keep an eye out okay you

1572
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:44,789
now if you haven't explained encounter

1573
00:59:48,069 --> 00:59:46,480
or sighting feel free to contact me

1574
00:59:48,950 --> 00:59:48,079
through the phantoms and monsters blog

1575
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,960
site

1576
00:59:52,870 --> 00:59:50,480
now if you're interested in supporting

1577
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,880
phantoms and monsters on arcane radio

1578
00:59:57,109 --> 00:59:54,960
you can use the paypal donation buttons

1579
00:59:58,870 --> 00:59:57,119
on the blog or the newsletter

1580
01:00:01,510 --> 00:59:58,880
your continued support is always

1581
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:01,520
appreciated now our new youtube channel

1582
01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:04,640
beyond explanation has new kind being

1583
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:07,200
new content being added every day

1584
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:09,280
including arcane radio archive

1585
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:12,400
shows so check it out and subscribe

1586
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:14,400
i want to again thank chad lewis for

1587
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:15,839
joining me this evening

1588
01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:17,680
and i want to thank you for listening to

1589
01:00:30,830 --> 01:00:19,920
the show good night stay healthy

1590
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:43,460
[Music]

1591
01:00:43,470 --> 01:01:08,550
[Applause]